Might we call what youre describing love? He does not back down on what he believes, yet responds to such denunciations with a gentle manner. Here is the question. But I think you have said that you have never read The Institutes. I think this is a bigger issue than Calvinism- its one fundamental to Christianity. Accept that they believe in a God of love even if you do not know how they get there. Questions should be addressed to the male authority in ones life. I do believe that some brands have harmful elements that bring extra despair as if every day life doesnt bring enough. What scientists call the laws of nature we call normal operations of the sovereign God. God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point. I could also pile up a lot of influential non-theologians here (C. S. Lewis, Billy Graham, Bill Bright), but I'm assuming your question was probing for a theological communicator of Packer's stature. Calvinism did not start with John Calvin. For my part, I honestly dont understand a need to defend Calvinism, or Luther, or the RCC, or Baptists, etc., etc. It is counterproductive. Jeff, above is one of my major objections to Calvinism as presented by adherents is the notion (however sincerely believed) that non Calvinists read the scriptures to suit their own fancy. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: The beginning of thought is in disagreement not only with others but also with ourselves.-Eric Hoffer. He, as I said previously, shows quotes by Calvinists during the video. I often wonder how Sproul Sr. feels about the fact that his son has gone soooooo far off the theological rails. Thinks youre the bees knees. In fact, I would go so far as to say I think its unbiblical. Breastmilk is the perfect food for babies and formula cant touch this aspect of it -scientists have analyzed the composition of the milk weeks/months and have found that the structure changes to meet babies need at each stage of development. I think the way to achieve this is to leave Calvin/theology out entirely and instead actively love/listen/show compassion. James P. Boyce<br>Ernest Reisinger is a Calvinist<br>I know Jerry Bridges is Reformed, but I'm not certain how many points he is<br><br><br>John MacArthur is Baptist, but he calls his church Community Church (unless fredman knows something I don't know about! Lin wrote: And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love ones neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, You are not far from the kingdom of God. And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions. I am thinking Ferengi with all of their Rules of Acquisition.. I dont see Calvinism as the issue, though I know some do. Keith Green (the only musician that made the list) 22. You wrote: Jeff [S], whether it was my misperceptions or real perceptions of the doctrine that you hold dear to your heart, someone trying to correct my faulty ideas of Calvinism isnt going to benefit me whatsoever if I am at the emotional/spiritual end of my rope. This is why I tend to fall back to the WCF. Learn as I go, mistakes & big mess. Why did he care so much about what the Bible said? We might refer instead to TULIP as a doctrinal stance. I dont even think PSA is limited to Calvinists- Lutherans believe it too, right? Thank you, thank you, for getting it right! Confused? I went through what Calvinists themselves call the cage stage, meaning that young or new Calvinists belong in one. Good post Dee (If Im allowed to comment on this one!). You might argue that with only a little bacteria, you might only get sick, but not die. He didnt say to have faith in the Reformation, or Tulip, or Keller, or your pastor/elder, husband, or Mary. "Pastor John C. Hagee is the founder and Senior Pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, a non-denominational evangelical church with more than 20,000 active members." (sacornerstone.org) His style is serious and intellectual. Now heres the thing, In Christ Alone is one of my favorite songs. Reformed theology has other tenets, which Calvin influenced, along with other theologians like Augustine (354-430) and Ulrich Zwingli (1484-1531). It doesnt conform to our sense of fairness and love. I mentioned the concept as one that was coming from a non-Calvinist contingent (but is also the view of Sproul). In that thread on JAs site, even when I tried to pull out, it felt like I was getting pulled back in. Instead, you consider this shorthand for biblical Christianity. As far as the WCF- sure it isnt exactly what Calvin taught. My dad was Russian Orthodox, primarily because it was a cultural expectation for him. We are to not worry about that; rather, be glad that any are saved. This is the reason I stopped reading JAs thread on Calvinism, and its the reason I will my best to stop reading this one. Oy. If we get to where we can podcast, Ill drop you a link. If you heard this preached, it might be from a Hyper-Calvinist church. It is how Calvinism discusses those underlying ideas that causes existential damage and thus, pain. Wesley and Whitefield came from opposite sides of the argument and yet I understand were able to have tolerable, if not friendly, relationships surely an encouragement to everyone else? Not really thinking things though. (for the record.). After all, there are reasons lots of men and women have bought into it over the last few hundred years. We will briefly survey these five points of disagreement and . People have come up with ideas of primary and secondary sources of action, but really all of that is outside of direct Biblical teaching. (LogOut/ Demeaning can also occur by passive-aggression, which is the preferred method of the more academic among us. At any rate, the point is that I agree with you (even though I disagree that TULIP is slanderous) that when we start elevating these doctrines to first tier issues, we are causing division within the body. Quotes about calvinism Jacobus Arminius 21. My hubby got his first spiritual stirrings while watching a live performance of, Jesus Christ Superstar. My humble opinionyet supported by scripture, is that the doctrines of unconditional election, limited atonement, and meticulous sovereignity (the last is not a pillar) villify and slander the name and character of Christ. This is a false dichotomy. It is entirely congregationally driven, so the church votes on pastors, and votes on board members (elders), not the other way around. God is bigger than us and is beyond our understanding except for some basics. As I was leaving Dallas, a man I did not know well approached me in church and said he wanted to correct something I had said. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. And what is an ocean but a multitude of single drops? Okay, that makes it a little less OCD. and total depravity if it means every aspect of our nature has been marred by sin.. It's not mine. The writers did claim to believe much the same, though, even that church and state should work together with the church ruling and the state enforcing church rule. But when our theories about how god works become more beloved to us than God himself, theyre just idols. CALVIN! I am a Christian. Like one Cal would say, Cals do not believe Z, stop saying Cals believe in Z, but then five posts later, another Cal would sit there in the same thread and defend Z, say Cals were right and proper to believe in Z, and Z has lots of Scriptural support. The Calvinism Free-For-All (nearly 1,100 comments this morning) post definitely triggered me. But, if, during an online conversation about Calvinism, someone writes that the discussion is disturbing to him/her, certain questions arise beyond the obvious point that its wrong to attack that person: Should the conversation be halted? As well as giving off a strong aroma of the No True Scotsman fallacy. And when hubby realized he was a sinner in need of forgiveness, he knew nothing about Calvinism or Arminismhe just called himself a believer. Bridget, would you mind documenting instances of this, if its not too much trouble, because I would be very interested in knowing if any of these people would make such a basic mistake about the concept of Total Depravity. Hopefully that will be winding down soon and Ill be able to get back on track this week or next. Apollos! discussions. How wonderful to remember those days! Entropy setting in over time? LOLI am much more hyper in my comments than they are. Michael Horton, a Calvinist, did the forward to the book. Ive done better with some on TWW than others, many times because of my own insensitivity. Recently, Julie Anne Smith, of the Spiritual Sounding Board, hada bit of a crisis in dealing with Calvinism. This was the feeling my wife and I got upon entering the world of neocalvinism in 2008. Im not saying that they are incapable of making the mistake, but, since you say that this is what many people come away with, it could be that they communicated it poorly. Many problems in churches and society should transcend doctrinal biases. Glad to have someone who gets my background! Calvins instituted Christian Religion is very much a place for the wise and learned, and hidden from little children. I am not faulting anyone or saying that Calvinists are lazy. Even though I have now separated myself from that belief system, connecting with those words brought me right back to those intense feelings of God was right there watching me get abused and didnt do a darn thing about it. So I posted my abuse story/Calvin connection and have tried to keep that thread safe. The Calvinism debate thread is a great place to really get into the nitty gritty of those tough issues. Although occasionally hurt by these accusations of heresy, he responds like a gentleman. I myself am a man, and know all too well, the sins and short-comings of mankind. We each probably believe that the venue we hold to is the best and most accurate. However, I have repeatedly heard calvinists call other believers heretics and blasphemers because they disagree with a pillar of calvinism (eg, they have a different definition of Gods sovereignity, or they believe Christ died for the sins of all). Accept that many Calvinists have never experienced a doctrinally rigorous, non-Calvinist church. (But I always wondered why, if it was not His desire that any man should perish, that He also would create someone specifically for hell?? He isnt at cross-purposes with Himself, so the question is silly. That is what total and depravity mean these days, after all. The greatness of God must be understood in a different way because this construct caused harm so deep that it tore into the core of me and made me wish for eternal death. I want people to love God and love their neighbors. So, I disagree with your choice of word infantilised because in my example Im talking about giving someone hurting exactly what they need (emotionally/spiritually) at the precise time they need it just like breastmilk. John DeBrine and Youthtime wad usually held at Tremont Temple but occasionally at Park St. Church. However, Jesus entered our dimension and exists now outside of our dimension. The promises are over the top. I am sorry that you feel this way, because it does sound like you just want an open field assault on Calvinism and for Calvinists to hold their tongue. The theology is weak. If I had to pick one thing about them that signals danger to me, though, it would be what they dont act on, which is all those chickified wishy-washy decaffy gay things Jesus (and subsequently the apostles) said about love being The Main Thing. Ive tried to suss out how God can create everything that exists and still give us free will, and I dont get that either; but because God is bigger and more powerful than me, I believe that he did. Study some good books that present the non-Calvinist point of view. Olson coined the label "Pannenberg's Principle" forWolfhart Pannenberg's argument (1969) that God's deity is his rule "The divinity of God and the reign of God in the world are inseparable."[6]. @ Katie: Do you share these thoughts? For a village to be wiped out? Why the pessimism? HOWEVER- as is often the case, what we deal with in real life can be quite unlike what the experts say it is. Yes, some would slip away. Dr Abraham Kuyper (1837-1920) was a Dutch Calvinist theologian, philosopher and politician. It is perfectly fine to disagree and to contend for our view of Scripture. He was the leading French Protestant reformer and the most important figure in the second generation of the Protestant Reformation. It means that someone thinks someone else is presenting an incorrect opinion/idea and will present disagreement in as many ways as he/she can think will work. We often find it difficult to tolerate uncertainty, so we do anything to avoid that. which many people hold as dear as religion and political beliefs. But for the most part, until I started studying apologetics, I didnt really care about the supposed differences and still dont except to understand but not as a means of division. /r/Christianity is a subreddit to discuss Christianity and aspects of Christian life. If the answer sometimes doesnt work then weve got more work to do "Eastview Christian Church pastor, Mike Baker, resigns after son, Caleb Baker, is fired from Central Christian Church for adultery" Why? God would never have deliberately planned that my Calvinist pastor-father would sexually abuse me for years and years. Wade is never too tired to defend what he believes, and he will not eschew the oppositions venue. And its a big enough issue that RC Sproul re-badges it to Radical Corruption. In spite of the fact that Sproul and Piper have said such things, i still consider them Christians. But, as Ilook back, I am gratified bythe number of friends who have stayed the course through the years. There is one more point that I do want to make, though. I DO struggle that when a woman is raped, that God chose not to prevent it. We can learn to receive it all. He is the primary cause of everything that comes to pass, the power supply for all force; secondary causes are always dependent for their power on the primary source of power..
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